reckless intuitions of an epistemic hygienist ([info]gustavolacerda) wrote,
@ 2005-05-25 00:47:00
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Entry tags:education, linguistics

Esperanto the most useful language to learn if you want to proceed to other languages?; EasyMath?
Esperanto may be the most useful language to learn if you want to learn other languages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propedeutic_value_of_Esperanto


I wonder if, analogously, there exists an "easy math". After being comfortable with EasyMath, most kids would have a much easier time learning other math.
Is "logic" an EasyMath? are some video games?


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[info]xuande
2005-05-24 11:23 pm UTC (link)
I found math a lot easier to learn after taking a course in plain old first-order logic with model semantics. In particular, I became comfortable with rigorous definitions, proving things from them, and some common math terminology like that of set theory. Afterward, I could work my way through highly formal math texts that would have terrified me a year earlier.

Although I've never studied it, I have a feeling geometry might have a similar effect.

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[info]gonzolawyer
2005-05-24 11:27 pm UTC (link)
I agree with [info]xuande when it comes to people who put in the effort to learn.

Which, as you know, applies to very few people. Most people are goddamn lazy.

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[info]rdore
2005-05-25 12:14 am UTC (link)
I had a professor who liked using minesweeper as an analogy for doing proofs.

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[info]gustavolacerda
2005-05-25 08:31 am UTC (link)
you mean, compared proofs about Minesweeper with "real proofs"?

I've written about reasoning about Minesweeper... there are many things you can do: propositional logic can get you far, but you tend to reach a point where two or more squares are logically indistinguishable, and you have to resort to probabilistic reasoning (and even anthropic reasoning, I argue)

You tend to need probabilistic reasoning in the very beginning and end of the game.

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[info]rdore
2005-05-25 10:01 am UTC (link)
The question: does this minesweeper have even one solution from current information is NP-complete.

But he meant this more vaguely - if you "know" where a mine is, why do you know that? If you can argue why precisely enough, this is a proof.


And I agree when actually playing the game, probabilistics come into play. But other things do to - if I know I will have to make a guess somewhere, I do it soon rather than late because I don't want to waste my time if I'm not going to win. (I suppose as described there's no penalty for doing so, but in similar situations there can be.)

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[info]jcreed
2005-05-25 04:49 am UTC (link)
Yeah, whether or whether not there is any deep effect having to do with learning an "easy" language training you effectively for learning other languages, e-o was for me a way of learning a foreign language that was much less actively discouraging than any other language. Of course there are irregularities and quirks in its vocabulary and grammar, but they don't stick out as much, and they seem to have to do with the fact that the semantics of the real world is just messy. What you don't find is, say, a verb with a different conjugation paradigm just because historical phonetic change battered it around differently than other verbs. After picking up a language and being made used to the feeling of language learning as a basically enjoyable, easy thing, I feel like I find myself extremely tolerant of the quirks of other languages.

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[info]brkvw
2005-05-25 06:36 am UTC (link)
I want to learn Esperanto for emotional reasons, (meaning I like the "idea" of it), but I'm going to relearn Spanish instead. I spoke Spanish as a child, so this should be pretty easy. My friend Z who is back in Holland can speak Esperanto very well (he also speaks Spanish, French, Italian, English, and Dutch of coarse). Although his Dutch is no longer his best language. I can barely speak my native tongue. But I can misspell in all languages perfectly :)

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